A Response to Don K. Preston: The Timing of the Coming of the Son of Man in the Book of Daniel

The following is a response to a Facebook exchange between Don K. Preston and I regarding the topic of his debate with William Vincent – the historic fulfillment of the coming of the Son of Man of Daniel chapter 7. Mr. Preston affirms that this was fulfilled in the judgment on Jerusalem in 70 AD. Mr. Vincent affirms that it was fulfilled in the ascension of Christ.

While not a formal participant in the debate, I took the opportunity to express to Mr. Preston that the arguments of he and Mr. Vincent rely on the premise that the coming of the Son of Man in judgment on the 4th Beast and Little Horn must have happened at a time after Christ’s earthly life. In response to this challenge, Don has asked that I respond directly to several points that he raised. This post consists of my responses. I demonstrate that the above premise is false.

Response #1

Don has asked whether I believe that the four kingdoms were kingdoms that existed in time, among men. My answer is yes.

He also asked if the Little Horn was a real, historical figure that appeared in the days of the 4th empire. I answer yes, with the clarification that the 4th Beast is a significant kingdom, not necessarily an empire.

He also asked if I believed the Son of Man became a real, historical figure, that appeared in time, on earth, among men. My answer is of course, yes. He eventually did. But, unlike the Little Horn and the Four Kingdoms, the Son of Man also existed prior to His appearance in physical form. Don agrees that the Son of Man did not come literally, physically, visibly to judge the Little Horn. That is, by his own argument, the title “Son of Man” is not limited to Christ’s physical, visible form. If the title of “Son of Man” applies to Christ in His invisible, non-physical coming in judgement on Jerusalem in 70 AD, it also applies to His invisible, non-physical pre-existence.

His argument seems particularly strange if he believes (assuming he does) that Christ did not retain a physical body after His ascension. If He did not retain the form of a “Son of Man” in His ascension or coming in judgment, then, using the rigid application of this title for which Don is arguing, the title “Son of Man” hardly seems appropriate for His 70 AD judgment.

Further, it seems Don’s argument could also be applied to John the Baptist’s reference to Christ as the Lamb of God (John 1:29). That is, that any reference to an action of this Lamb in the history of man must be bound to the time after Christ physically manifested Himself as this Lamb. Yet, we are told that the Lamb was slain since the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8). Likewise, Christ’s kingdom is said to have been established at a time beyond His incarnation (John 4:23; 5:25; Matthew 16:28). Yet, we are told that kingdom was prepared since the creation of the world (Matthew 25:34).

In light of this, Preston’s appeal to Christ’s eventual manifestation as a real, historical figure does little to strengthen the case (let alone force the “logical necessity” he claims) that the time period in view for the Son of Man of Daniel 7 is some point after His physical appearance on earth.

Preston’s conclusions regarding the implications of this title on the time period to which it pertains may be reasonable, but they are by no means certain. Nor are they the only reasonable conclusions. In fact, the evidence suggests they are not even the likeliest of conclusions.

Response #2

Don has also asked me to directly respond to his point that the vision in Daniel 7 is limited to the time of the 4th Beast. There is an enormous body of evidence that this is also a false premise. There are four primary evidences of this.

• The first is that Daniel sets an expectation to the readers that the judgment of the 4th Beast and Little Horn was a prefigurement of an eschatological, final judgment to be brought on a later kingdom. The judgment of that kingdom is described in the book of Revelation. If this can be demonstrated to be true, then the events surrounding Daniel’s 4th Beast and Little Horn of chapter 7 refer to more than one kingdom and span multiple periods of time. It follows then that the events surrounding the description of the 4th Beast cannot, with any degree of certainty, be limited solely to the immediate time of the kingdom represented by this beast.
• The second primary evidence is that the biblical symbolism strongly suggests that Daniel’s 2nd and 3rd kingdoms are Media and Medo-Persia. This means that Greece would be the 4th kingdom and the Little Horn would be Antiochus Epiphanes. The evidence for these identifications is even weightier than scholars who agree with this assessment seem to currently be aware.
• Third, we have every reason to expect that Daniel’s prophecies are elaborate riddles.
• Fourth, the language of Jesus does not even closely parallel the language of Daniel.

Details on all of these points follow.

Parts of the Beast Were Preserved

The first primary evidence above can be broken down into the following 8 major points:

1) As a preliminary point, traditionally, preterists correlate Daniel’s 4th Beast with the Beast of the Sea from Revelation 13. These beasts are generally seen as different symbols for the same literal, historic kingdom (i.e. the Roman Empire). This would mean they refer to the same period of time and describe the same judgment event. However, it seems very significant that the Sea Beast is described in terms of a resurrected kingdom (Revelation 13:3). In the absence of other information, there are several ways to explain this that may be reasonably compatible with the traditional correlation. This observation may not directly lead to any solid conclusions on its own, but it gives us a strong reason to at least suspect that the Sea Beast symbolizes a different worldly kingdom separated by a span of time from the kingdom represented by the 4th Beast. In conjunction with the evidence presented later, I think this alternative view fits the available information much better than the traditional view.

2) The Little Horn is an 8th king (10 + 1 – 3) (Daniel 7:8). Compare to the 8th king – the Scarlet Beast who “once was, and now is not and will yet come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction” (Revelation 12:3; 17:3,8,11). This corresponding identity from Revelation appears to have been a resurrected influence from a former kingdom.

3) Though not an authoritative interpretation, the Apocryphal book of 2 Esdras may give us some insight as to how early interpreters saw Daniel’s 4th Beast. In 2 Esdras 11-12, the angel Uriel shows Ezra a vision of an eagle coming up from the sea. The eagle has eight opposing/rival wings (2 Esdras 11:3,11; 12:19-21). It also has three heads (2 Esdras 11:1,23; 12:22-23). As in Daniel (discussed in point 7 below), the vision focuses on the body, not the heads (2 Esdras 11:10,23,45; 12:3,17). In the interpretation of the vision, Uriel tells Ezra the eagle represents the same kingdom as Daniel’s 4th kingdom but “it was not explained to him as I now explain to you or have explained it.” (2 Esdras 12:10-12). It would seem likely that Daniel’s 4th Beast was understood to be a different kingdom than that of Uriel’s eagle – the Roman Empire.

4) Daniel describes the 4th Beast as being different than the first three (Daniel 7:3,7,19,23) yet the Sea Beast of Revelation incorporates features from each of these three beasts (Revelation 13:1-2)

5) The judgments on the Sea Beast and Daniel’s 4th Beast have one glaring difference. Revelation’s Beast from the Sea was thrown alive into the lake of fire and was tormented forever. This implies that it remained forever alive but powerless. (Revelation 19:20). Daniel’s 4th Beast was killed before being thrown into the fire and destroyed (Daniel 7:11). This is a significant difference that suggests they are not symbols of the same earthly kingdom.

6) It’s interesting that both the he-goat that explicitly represents Greece is ‘hairy‘ (Daniel 8:12) and the emperors of the Roman empire assumed the title Caesar. Latin words for Caesar (Caesar, Caesaris) are apparently rooted in the Latin words for ‘hairy‘, caesariēs, caesarieī. (See also G2541 and H8163)

7) Another more subtle difference between these beasts is that Revelation’s Beast from the Sea was obviously thrown into the fire intact (presumably because it was alive). However, suspiciously, only the body of Daniel’s 4th Beast is mentioned as being thrown into the fire, suggesting that there were pieces of it that were not destroyed. As subtle as this point may seem, the following observations make it quite obvious that this is very significant and we are intended to understand that the 4th Beast has not been completely destroyed. Two very significant parts of it (i.e. the head and feet) were marked explicitly for preservation by a significant combination of metals (i.e. “bronze and iron”) (Daniel 7:7,19). The fact that there is no significance explicitly stated for the “iron teeth” and “bronze claws” of the 4th Beast suggests one of two things. They are either largely irrelevant to the prophecy or their significance can be determined with such certainty that it hardly needs explained. In light of the following evidence, insignificance does not seem at all to be the likely interpretation.

A) The Messianic Significance of Bronze [H5154/H5178] and Iron[H1270]

i) bronze and iron are mentioned together 7 times in Daniel (Daniel 2:35,45; 4:15,23; 5:4,23; 7:19). Note, the only chapter in which it does not occur twice is in the last chapter in reference to the 4th Beast.

ii) Nebuchadnezzar was driven insane for 7 years and was restored exactly 8 years after the prophecy of this insanity had been given to him (Daniel 4:25-26,29). Babylon’s preservation during this period was symbolized by his stump being bound with iron and bronze (Daniel 4:15,23). Beyond this, Nebuchadnezzar’s insanity can be demonstrated to have additional Messianic significance. A future post will explore this in more detail.

iii) God would go before Cyrus and break through gates of bronze and iron to destroy Babylon. (Isaiah 45:2)

iv) The destroyers of Babylon (i.e. Medes) (Jeremiah 51:11,28) don’t care for silver or gold (Isaiah 13:17). The only other metals mentioned in the Bible are iron, bronze, tin (which itself is an ingredient in bronze), and lead. If the Medes cared for any metals at all, it would seem bronze and iron would be the only other ones with a use practical for their purposes in combat.

v) Stubborn Israel is described as having an iron neck and bronze forehead. She is told to flee Babylon and God promises not to destroy her completely (i.e. preserve her). God also promises judgment on Babylon. (Isaiah 48:4,9,12,14,20)

vii) Tubal-Cain was a worker of iron and bronze (Genesis 4:22). I’ve demonstrated elsewhere that there is enormous prophetic significance to Tubal-Cain’s family. For starters, his generation was the 8th and final one recorded from Adam through Cain. His lineage contains multiple adjoining references to Cain and the number 7 (Genesis 4:15,24). The names of Tubal-Cain [H8423] and his brothers Jabal [H2989] and Jubal [H3106] are all related to the word for Jubilee [H3104] as in, the year marked by 7 periods of 7 years each (Leviticus 25,27; Numbers 36:4). The year when all debts would be cancelled, slaves freed, and property returned to its original owners. Buwl [H945] is also related to these words and it was the 8th month, the month in which Solomon completed the temple after 7 years of building (1 Kings 6:38). Tubal is also scripturally connected with the confusion [H8397] of Babylon (Leviticus 18:23; 20:12; Revelation 17:1-2). Compare to the confusion [H1101] of Babel/Babylon in Genesis 11:7,9. In the middle 3 of the 7 recorded sons of Japheth, Tubal follows Greece (i.e. Javan [H3120]) which itself was preceded by Media (i.e. Madai [H4074]), the kingdom of the Medes (Genesis 10:2; 1 Chronicles 1:5). These kingdoms are all very significant to both Daniel and Revelation. The eschatological significance of Lamech, Adah, Zillah, and Naamah can also be demonstrated with further connections to Daniel (particularly his 70-weeks prophecy) and other prophets. A future post will document this in much more detail. However, my main point here is that Tubal-Cain’s generation sets the expectation that the depravity of Cain will be preserved and continually reborn in future generations. Further, it associates this cycle with eschatologically significant Babylon.

vi) Zion to be given horns of iron and hooves of bronze to destroy many nations (Micah 4:13). She will go to Babylon but there will be preserved and redeemed (Micah 4:10). This passage is obviously Messianic and has parallels with other Messianic passages (Micah 4:3-4; Joel 3:10; Isaiah 2:1-4).

viii) The Promised Land has stones containing iron and hills full of copper [H5178] elsewhere translated bronze (Deuteronomy 8:9). Israel’s presence in this land would be preserved as long as they did not forget God there. Otherwise, they would be destroyed (Deuteronomy 8:19-20).

ix) Part of the curses to befall Israel for breaking God’s covenant was that the sky above her head will be bronze to resist the rain and the ground will become iron to resist the crops (Deuteronomy 28:23). The number 7 is also referenced here twice (Deuteronomy 28:7,25).

x) In the blessing of the tribes by Moses, the tribe of Asher would be given shoes (alluding to their feet) of iron and bronze (Deuteronomy 33:25). Asher was the 8th son of Jacob (Genesis 30:13), named for the happiness of his mother Leah at his birth. Asher is said to be “most blessed” out of all of the tribes (Deuteronomy 33:4). The Hebrew word for 8 is intimately connected with the concept of finality, completeness and the ‘blessing’ of perfection, happiness and fullness. Straight from Strong’s Concordance under the entry for H8083 (shĕmoneh – 8), “from H8082 through the idea of plumpness; a cardinal number, eight (as if a surplus above the ‘perfect’ seven)”.

xi) In the 7-fold judgments on Israel alluded to in the bowls, seals, and trumpets of Revelation (Leviticus 26:18-24), part of the curses include the sky above them becoming iron and ground beneath them becoming bronze. The sense is the same as in point (ix) above.

xii) In David’s preparations for Solomon to build God’s temple, bronze and iron were for the nails [H4548] of the doors of the gateways and for the fittings (1 Chronicles 22:3). H4548 only occurs 4 times in Scripture. It derives from H5568. H5568 itself only occurs one other place in reference to the 3 kingdoms God would summon to help the Medes destroy Babylon (Jeremiah 51:27-28). Incidentally, this word has connections to bristling hair, shagginess or a rough coat. Compare to the concept of the shaggy He-Goat of Daniel 8 identified as Greece from point (6) above. Nebuchadnezzar is also mentioned as swallowing Israel like a snake and spewing her out (Jeremiah 51:34). Compare this to (xiv) below. There are also many parallels between Jeremiah 51 and chapters 14 and 18 of Revelation.

xiii) Bronze and iron (2 Chronicles 24:12-13) were used to strengthen the temple that had fallen into ruins under Athaliah when she reigned (2 Chronicles 24:7) during the 6 years that young Joash was in hiding. The eschatological significance of Joash is enormous. He was protected by his aunt Jehosheba (2 Kings 11:2; 2 Chronicles 22:11-12). In the 7th year, Jehoiada, the chief priest, rose up and destroyed the house of Baal, anointed Joash king and killed Athaliah (2 Chronicles 23:21). Joash was 7 years old when he began to reign. He reigned 40 years (Israel’s wilderness wanderings are mentioned in 2 Chronicles 23:9). His mother was Zibiah of Beersheba (i.e. 7 wells). The mothers of the two servants (Jehozabad and Zabad) who eventually killed Joash in judgment for his apostasy were Shimeath and Shimrith. These are likely word-plays on the number 8 (cf. shĕmoneh [H8083]). Compare to another notable “servant of man” Obed-Edom. Obed derives from abad [H5647] meaning ‘servant’. He was a musician who played the harp according to the ‘sheminith‘ [H8067](i.e. an 8 stringed instrument or tonal octave) (1 Chronicles 15:21). He was ‘blessed’ with 8 sons (1 Chronicles 26:4-5) after he became caretaker of the Ark of the Covenant (2 Samuel 6:10-12; 1 Chronicles 13:13-14). Compare this to Jubal, the 8th generation of Adam through Cain and the father of musicians who played the organ and harp (Genesis 4:21). Obed-Edom’s descendants grew to 62 in number (1 Chronicles 26:8). Compare this to the age of Darius the Mede, the conqueror of Babylon (Daniel 5:30) and the division of the 70-weeks prophecy into periods of 7, 62, and 1 (Daniel 9:25-26). Just as Lamech, Jubal’s father, was the first man recorded to have two wives, we are told, seemingly out of context, that Jehoiada also had two wives (2 Chronicles 24:3).

xiv) Zophar the Naamathite tells of the downfall of all those who oppress and forsake the poor (Job 20:24). A judgment foretold since man was placed on the earth (Job 20:4). The wicked are said to flee from a iron weapon only to be pierced by a bronze-tipped arrow. The account focuses on snakes and their venom (cf. the prophecy of judgment on the serpent Genesis 3:14-15). Zophar [H6691] is related to the words for hairy and goat [H6842, H6841]. Naamathite [H5284] is practically a homograph for Naamah [H5279], the sister of Tubal-Cain from point (vii) above. Just prior to this, Job pleads that his words could be recorded forever, with an iron tool on lead [H5777]. He references ‘the end’ when God would stand upon the earth and Job would see him with his own eyes. He also speaks of judgment. (Job 19:23-29).

xv) In Job’s final discourse on wisdom in reply to his friends, he references the collection of iron from earth and copper [H5178] out of stone in contrast to the elusive source of wisdom (Job 28:2). There are Messianic allusions throughout this context. The entire discourse opens with the subject of wisdom (Job 26:3) and covers 6 chapters (Job 26-31). This discourse also refers to Abaddon/Destruction and Death (Job 26:6; 28:22; 31:12). Compare to the Angel of the Abyss in Revelation 9:11 and the destruction of Death and Hades (Revelation 1:18; 6:8; 20:13-14). God churns up the sea and cuts the sea monster Rahab to pieces (Job 26:12). Rahab is also mentioned in Job 9:13 in conjunction with the Pleiades [H3598] (i.e. 7 stars). The Pleiades are also mentioned in Job 38:31. Elsewhere in Scripture, Rahab is mentioned in an allusion to the parting of the Red Sea for God’s redeemed (Isaiah 51:10-11). God also pierces the gliding serpent Leviathan (Job 26:12-13). Compare this to point (xvi) below. The fate God allots to the wicked is also mentioned (Job 27:13). The number 7 occurs 8 times in Job. These references occur at the beginning (Job 2:13; 5:19) and end (Job 42:8,13). Multiples of 7×2 also occur in Job 42:16,12 in accordance with his double restoration (Job 42:10). Job also makes references to the prophetically significant Sabeans (Job 1:13; Isaiah 45:14), Chaldeans (Job 1:13) and Sheba (Job 6:19). Jesus tells us the Queen of Sheba who tested the greatness of Solomon’s wisdom with riddles (1 Kings 10:1-13; 2 Chronicles 9:1-12) would rise in the final judgment (Matthew 12:42; Luke 11:41).

xvi) Job records Leviathan, a beast from the sea and the feeble obstacles that iron and bronze present to him (Job 41:27). Job’s cursing of his own life opens with a reference to Leviathan (Job 3:8) after he and his friends sit together for 7 days and nights (Job 2:13). Leviathan is destroyed in the ‘Day of the Lord’ (Isaiah 27:1), when the earth “will conceal her slain no longer” (Isaiah 26:21). Satan, the instigator of Job’s suffering and an attempt to bring a curse on God at the beginning (Job 1:11,2:5,9) is never mentioned again in the book. Yet, right where we might expect to see God claim victory over him, instead we see two beasts in his place that bear a resemblance to those in Revelation 13 where they appear allied with the Serpent/Satan (Revelation 12:9; 20:12). Right before the introduction of these beasts, God challenges Job in his ability to crush and bury the wicked in the dust and thus save himself from the wicked and “every proud man” (Job 40:11-14). Also, instead of a curse on God, Satan’s efforts bring a curse on the birth of Job, as indicated when Job speaks as “the enemy” [H347 cf. H340,H341,H342] (Job 3:1). Contrast this with the burnt offerings Job offered for each of his 7 sons and 3 daughters as a precaution in the event that one of them had cursed God in their hearts during one of the feasts they held on their birthdays (Job 1:4 NIV).

xvii) Behemoth has bones like bronze and iron (Job 40:18). This beast from the land “feeds on grass like an ox”. Compare to the diet of Israel’s military men in Numbers 22:4. These words are spoken by Balak son of Zippor [H6834] (also related to hairy and goat), king of Moab. Here, the false prophet Baalam asks Balak for 7 altars, 7 bulls, and 7 rams to summon a curse on Israel from the hand of God. However, only blessings come forth (Numbers 23:1-3). Revelation 2:14 recalls the enticement Balaam presented to Israel. Micah also calls to Israel’s mind Baalam’s failed curses (Micah 6:5). Incidentally, this follows chapter 5 which contains the promise of the Messiah (Micah 5:2) quoted in Matthew 2:6 and a promise of vengeance on the nations. Micah 5:5 mentions 7 shepherds and 8 leaders of men. Chapter 5 also follows the reference to Israel’s iron horns and bronze claws mentioned in point (vi) above.

xviii) In the story of the redemeed of the Lord, “those he gathered from the lands, from east and west, north and south” (Psalm 107:2-3) some of whom had been “prisoners in iron chains” (Psalm 107:10) but God “breaks down gates of bronze and cuts through bars of iron” (Psalm 107:16). Compare to Cyrus in Isaiah 45:2 in point (iii) above. Reference is also made to the gates of death and the grave (Psalm 107:18-20).

xix) In the narrative of the Messianic Age, gold replaces bronze and silver replaces iron. Then bronze and iron make a reappearance in the place of wood and stones respectively (Isaiah 60:17). Immediately following this is a description of the light of God replacing the light of the sun and moon (Isaiah 60:19-20) Compare to Revelation 21:23; 22:5,16; Isaiah 19:18; 30:26; 58:8-10.

xx) Jeremiah is described a “defensed” city, an iron pillar, with bronze walls to resist and be rescued from Judah (Jeremiah 1:18-19). This is in the context of a vision that Jeremiah is shown of a seething pot in reference to the threat of Babylon against them.

xxi) Israel’s inhabitants are described as hardened rebels like bronze and iron (Jeremiah 6:26-28). Babylon, God’s army from the north, is described as a tester of metals and Israel is described as the ore. Incense from Sheba is also mentioned (Jeremiah 6:20).

xxii) Again, in reference to the coming judgment of Babylon, God asks if man can break iron from the north or bronze (Jeremiah 15:12).

xxiii) Heavenly man with arms and legs like bronze (Daniel 10:6)

xxiv) And finally, metals are of course significant because they pass through fire unharmed (Numbers 31:22-24)

B) The Significance of the Head, Hands and Feet

i) During Nebuchanezzar’s 7 year insanity, his hair grew like feathers and his nails like the claws of a bird (Daniel 4:33). He also is said to “eat grass like an ox”. Behemoth, a eschatological character also ate grass like an ox (Job 40:15). Compare also to the lion who eats straw in the messianic age (Isaiah 11:6; 65:25) and the lion representing Nebuchadnezzar’s Babylonian empire (Daniel 7:4). Compare also to point (A. xvii) above.

ii) The head and hands are also significant biblically in the Old Testament (Exodus 13:9,16; Deuteronomy 6:8; 11:18; Ezekiel 9:4) and regarding the thoughts and actions of people (Revelation 9:20). In Revelation, the head and hands received marks and names (Revelation 17:5) of both the Lamb and the Sea Beast signifying both preservation (Revelation 7:2-3; 9:4; 19:16-17) and resurrection (Revelation 13:3,14; 20:4; 22:4). The token injustice against the saints was beheading (Revelation 20:4). Christ’s own feet, emblems of healed wounds and resurrection, were like bronze (Revelation 1:15; 2:18).

iii) The head and legs/feet had special significance in burnt offerings of domesticated beasts (Leviticus 1:4,8-9,12-13; 8:20-21; 14:10,17,19) and those being consecrated (Exodus 29:20; Leviticus 8:23-24;14:14,17,25,28) and their preservation (Leviticus 8:33-35).

iv) The partial destruction and preservation of prophetically significant persecutors of Israel’s past. For example, Jezebel, notable for two specific instances of murdering God’s prophets (2 Kings 9:35). This is a section charged with prophetic prefigurements, but Jezebel’s demise is particularly relevant to our discussion. She is noted for her unjust killing of God’s prophets (1 Kings 18:4,13) and Naboth [H5022] for his vineyard (1 Kings 21). Naboth incidentally means “fruit, increase, bring forth” and bears a striking resemblance to the words for prophet and prophecy [H5012, H5013, H5016, H5017, H5029, H5030, H5031].

Later, in 2 Kings 9, Jehu meets kings of Israel and Judah – Ahaziah and Joram – in Naboth’s field. He kills Joram right there and then Ahaziah after he fled by the way of the garden house and was fatally wounded at the going up of the cubs (i.e. Gur [H1483]). He then died in prophetically significant Meggido [H4023].

After that, in Jezreel, Jezebel – the harlot as Jehu implies – is thrown to her death from a tower and she is eaten by dogs. All the dogs leave of her is her skull, hands and feet (2 Kings 9:35). Interestingly, as she sees Jehu approaching, in an attempt to preserve herself, she marks her head (2 Kings 9:30). This is all in fulfillment of Elisha’s earlier prophecies, initially prompted by Naboth’s murder (1 Kings 21:23; 2 Kings 9:10,36). The implication is Jehu was a deliverer but he was not going to be the one to restore Israel and Judah and was not the expected Messiah. Jezebel was gone but her likeness would rise again requiring someone greater than Jehu to completely destroy.

v) The only body parts significant enough to merit a description at the introduction of the resurrected beast of Revelation are its feet and mouth (alluding to its head) (Revelation 13:2).

8) Duality or splitting of things into 2 symmetrical parts is actually very central to the Messianic types and prophecies. Some examples:

• the city of 7 hills of Revelation 17:9 (Jerusalem and Rome)
• the Prophet like Moses as Joshua and Jesus (Deuteronomy 18:18-19; 31:1-8; 34:10; Numbers 27:12-23; John 1:21; 6:14)
• twin sons (Genesis 25:24-25; 38:27-30)
• splitting of the altar as the sign of Josiah (1 Kings 13:3-5)
• splitting of the Mount of Olives and the River from Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:4,8)
• the successive prophets Elijah and Elisha (2 Kings 2)
• Elisha’s double-portion of Elijah (2 Kings 2:9)
• Israel’s double portion in the Messianic Age (Isaiah 61:7)
• the double judgment on Babylon (Revelation 18:6)
• parallel names in lines of Seth and Cain (Genesis 4-5)
• 2 witnesses, olive trees and lampstands (Revelation 11:4)
• The division of Israel under two individuals whose names play off of one another (Rehoboam and Jeroboam)

And it is not at all out of character with the prophetic language of Daniel. The possibility of a double-fulfillment of the figures of the 4th Beast and Little Horn seems quite likely to follow such examples.

A) There are multiple eschatological abominations of desolation alluded to in Daniel (Daniel 8:13; 9:26-27; 11:31; 12:11). Jesus applied one of those to His time (Daniel 9:26-27; Matthew 24:13; Mark 13:14) yet another was obviously in reference to Antiochus IV (Daniel 8:13; 11:31 and possibly Daniel 12:11).

B) Desolations (plural) is also used in Daniel 9:26, a prophecy supposedly relating to only the desolation of 70 AD.

C) If the “time, times and half a time” refer to 3 1/2, this number divides 7 into two equal parts suggesting it was only one component of two periods of time relating to the end times. The anointed one is cut off in the middle of one ‘seven’ (Daniel 9:27). These two statements suggest that there are two components to Daniel’s view of the Judgment of the Messiah.

D) There are two approximations of three and a half years (1,260 days vs 1,290 and 1335) (Daniel 12:11) The difference between the 1,335 days of ‘blessing’ of Daniel 12:12 and the 1,290 days in Daniel 12:11 is 45 – exactly 1/8th of a 360 day year. This suggests there are 2 phases to the 3 1/2 years, the last being far more significant than the first.

E) The power of the Holy people would be finally broken in fulfillment of Daniel 12:7 alluding to the temporary breaking of the power as well as a latter part of a divided 7 with the reference to “time, times and half a time”

F) Two distinct terminations of the daily sacrifice (Daniel 8:11-12 vs. Daniel 12:11)

G) 2,300 evenings and mornings vs. the 4,600 taken in the Babylonian exile (Daniel 8:14; Jeremiah 52:30)

H) Babylon itself was divided and given to two allied kingdoms in Daniel 5:28. This division was in conjunction with a riddle and some plays on words (phrases that have dual meanings.) Word-plays are common in Scripture and are strongly associated with the confusion of languages at Babel/Babylon.

J) Belteshazzar [H1095/H1096] (i.e. Daniel) was poised to assume the same level of power as Belshazzar [H1112/H1113] (Daniel 6:3 cf. 5:29). Belshazzar was the second highest ruler in the kingdom as co-regent of Nabonidus. It is obviously no coincidence that these names are near homographs.

K) In Daniel 11, I dedicate a great deal of space to demonstrating that the King of the North and King of the South are each dual references to God as well as the earthly kingdoms He’s using to accomplish His will. Also, the King of the North is dual reference to Syria and Roman empire. Syria is also represented by both the King of the North and King of the South at different points in the prophecy. I demonstrate all of this here.

L) there may even be significance to the words of Jesus when he speaks of Satan’s kingdom, the epitome of Babylon, “every Kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation [G2049]” (Matthew 12:25; Luke 11:17). Compare this to G2050 used for desolation in Matthew 24:13; Mark 13:14 and nowhere else. The only other place in the New Testament that G2049 occurs is in Revelation 17:16;18:17,19 in reference to the Whore of Babylon.

These points are all consistent with the extreme possibility that the destruction of the 4th Beast encompasses two distinct periods of time and two kingdoms of similar character.

The 4th Beast Symbolizes the Greek Empire, Not the Roman Empire

The second primary evidence can be broken down into the following 3 major points:

1) The 3rd Beast Was the Medo-Persian Empire, Not the Greek Empire

The 3rd Beast was symbolized by the 4-winged, 4-headed leopard [H5245]. Most see the wings as representing the speed with which Greece conquered the world. It expanded quicker than any empire before it.

However, there is staggering, scriptural evidence that the 3rd leopard-like beast was actually Persia.

A) There are 2 other creatures in Scripture itself that have associations with 4 wings, 4 heads and are covered in spots/eyes like a leopard (Jeremiah 13:23). Those are the Seraph (Isaiah 6:1-6; Revelation 4:6-8) and Cherub (Ezekiel 1:4-14; 10:14-20) that are in the presence of God’s throne.

B) Before elaborating on the relationship between the leopards, seraphim, and cherubim, when interpreting the significance of the leopard, it’s also important to realize that this imagery of the four beasts in general has a scriptural precedent. The beasts in Daniel 7 are almost certainly echoing the judgment about to fall on the northern kingdom of Israel through God’s use of Assyria in Hosea 13:7-8. There, all these animals are united to represent God in His role as judge.

Incidentally, this judgment coincides with an east wind (Hosea 13:14). Compare this to the wind and whirlwind of Hosea 4:19; 8:7 signifying God’s flaming whirlwind-like chariot-throne. A whirlwind also accompanied God’s throne and the cherubim of Ezekiel 1 too (Ezekiel 1:4). This throne is most definitely seen in Daniel 7:9-12 and I think it can be argued very persuasively that we are also intended to see it in Daniel 11:40 as God destroys Greece in judgment.

Unlike Hosea though, in Daniel, the beasts are separated, suggesting God’s influence over all nations just as was the case with Assyria. Though, at the same time, it’s hard to imagine that this imagery wasn’t also intended to call to Judah’s mind the obliteration of her sister Israel. This imagery would likely have been an ominous warning to Judah that they were in danger of the same fate. The initial exile under Babylonia had been temporary but the restoration would also have its end. Indeed, Daniel makes the reality of this “end” pretty clear later on.

In Revelation 13, we see these beasts reunited in a representation of Rome carrying out the same judgment on Jerusalem that its sister Samaria had undergone by Assyria.

All this suggests these animals have direct connections to God Himself as Israel’s judge and savior. Both the bear and the leopard seem to have a focus on God’s role as savior just as both the Medes and Persians did. If the bear was Medo-Persia, in what sense was Greece a savior to Israel? While Greece at first crossed the earth “without touching the ground” (Daniel 8:5) and was hospitable to Israel, it became a monster that brought immense suffering on them. On the other hand, Medo-Persia was always amicable to Israel and assumed a definitive Messianic role in her history.

C) So, returning to the significance of the 4-winged, 4-headed leopard. If we are to determine what kingdom this represents, it may be helpful to look for evidence in Daniel 8 where kingdoms are explicitly matched to the symbolic animals they represent. The kingdom of the Medes and Persians are the Ram (Daniel 8:20) and the shaggy He-Goat is Greece (Daniel 8:21). We are also told that this vision took place next to a body of running water – the Ulai river – in the province of Elam. Also, the ram was standing right beside the river in the vision. Perhaps it’s no coincidence that ram [H352] and Ulai [H195] all derive from the same word meaning mighty [H193]. The words for God and judge [H410, H433, H426, H430] also derive from ram [H352]. Also, Ezekiel’s vision of the cherubs and God’s throne takes place near a river, the Kebar river.

Hebrew words for rivers themselves are related to Jubilee which in turn is also associated with horns of rams. Further, Daniel hears a voice from the river asking “How long” (Daniel 8:16) just as in Isaiah 6 where we saw the seraphim. The speaker isn’t mentioned but it seems likely it was God, especially comparing the voice to the one in v. 16. So the Ram has intimate and longstanding connections with God and his salvation. This is consistent with Persia’s typological relationship to the Kingdom of Christ.

How does this serve as evidence that the Ram and the Leopard refer to the same kingdom? Our first hint comes from Isaiah 11:6-7 where we see a leopard [H5246] laying down with a goat [H1423] in a famous messianic prophecy. The other animals mentioned in this prophecy have obvious parallels to the faces of cherubim. The idea being conveyed is that enmity between these animals had been removed in the Messianic kingdom. Just as the ram and he-goat of Daniel 8 are enemy nations, the leopard and the goat are former enemies here. Could the leopard and ram be symbols of the same thing?

D) It’s also interesting to consider where the word for leopard originates. Believe it or not, it actually has its roots in the concept of clear, clean water. Confirm this by looking up the relationship between the Hebrew words represented by Strong’s numbers H5245, H5246, H5247, H5249, and H1039. This is surely significant in light of the fact that each of the first 3 beasts are unclean animals according to the Levitical law, yet all of them symbolized God in Hosea 13:7-8.

Compare this to Daniel 10:4 where another vision and river are mentioned in the prelude to the prophecy of the Kings of the North and South in Daniel 11, a prophecy of judgment where we find God’s whirlwind-chariot-throne is key to properly interpreting the fulfillment of verses 11:40-45. The river in Daniel 10:4 is the Tigris [H2313]. This word only occurs one other place in Scripture and that is in Genesis 2:9-14. There it occurs in conjunction with the Tree of Life and God placing man in the garden. It is called out as the 3rd of the 4 rivers (literally “heads” – H7218) that split off from the river running through the Garden of Eden, the garden of God’s presence. The same garden that man was driven from and then protected by a cherub (Genesis 3:24). Does this suggest that the 3rd beast out of the 4 in Daniel 7, a cherub-like leopard, specifically having 4 heads is to be associated with the clean, pure water of Eden and perhaps the ram and river of Daniel 8?

Compare this also to the sea of glass and the 24 thrones of Revelation 4:4. Notice, also, the Tigris is mentioned in conjunction with the number 24 and is sandwiched between two different suggestions of 3 ‘sevens’ (Daniel 10:2-3,13). Compare this to Revelation 4:1-8 where we see God’s throne, 24 other thrones, a crystal clear sea, 7 spirits of God, and hybrids between cherubim and seraphim. Consider also that the vision of the Ram and the He-Goat was also seen in the 3rd year of “Belshazzar” (Daniel 8:1) while the vision containing the reference to the Tigris is shown to “Belteshazzar” in the 3rd year Cyrus (Daniel 10:1). If 3 is to be our focus, we might notice that 24 is also 3×8 (8 being a number of Jubilee).

E) If the segmented statue of Daniel 2 parallels the 4 beasts of Daniel, the leopard correlates with the bronze section of the statue. As the Medo-Persian empire was a mixed rule of the Medes and Persians, bronze seems like a better representation of a mixed kingdom to me than silver. It’s the only alloy of all the metals mentioned in the statue or the Bible for that matter. Bronze is copper and tin. The Hebrew word for tin [H913] derives from a word meaning ‘divided’ [H914]. That fits well with the word-play in the writing on the wall when Babylon fell (Daniel 5:24-28). Babylon was divided and given to the Medes and Persians. Copper also has other connections to seraphim and cherubim.

Many other observations can be made but that should be sufficient to make the case.

2) The Second Beast Was the Kingdom of Media

This beast was the bear. In Hosea 13 from above, God says he would come to Israel “like a bear robbed of her cubs” and “tear open their breast” (Hosea 13:7-8 ESV). In Daniel 7, the bear follows the lion reminiscent of Nebuchadnezzar, the one who had robbed God of His own cubs. This bear also has ribs in its mouth, likely from the tearing open of Israel’s rib cage. Compare this also to Samuel 17:8 speaking of David, a messianic figure, while in hiding from his son Absolom. Also, Israel moans like bears having been separated by God because of her sin (Isaiah 59:11).

The actual language used in the description of the bear being raised up is not clear, but it suggests that the bear was raising itself up. This is strange in that it would seem contrary to one of Daniel’s key lessons that God alone is responsible for raising up the lowliest of men and bringing low mighty kings (Daniel 4:17). Unless there was something unusual God was doing with this kingdom. These words also occur in some other unique places in Scripture that suggest Messianic significance to their occurence with the bear.

Further, in connection with the Pleiades (‘seven’ stars) from point (A. xv.) above, in Job 9:9;38:1-2, God takes credit for leading out the constellation of the Bear [H5906] with its cubs. In these spots, God also takes credit for opening the bands of Orion (aka the Fool [H3685]). Compare to the bonds of Samson [H8123] (aka. the Sun) provided by the fool Delilah and the 7 locks on Samson’s head (Judges 16:19; Numbers 6:9). The word for ‘fool’ which Orion derives from is H6384 and occurs exclusively in the books of Psalms, Proverbs and Ecclesiastes 70 times in total. Only 3 occurrences are in Psalms placing the remaining 67 in the books that are traditionally attributed to a very wise man with a lot to say about foolishness – King Solomon. He’s a man with many associations with the Messiah and the Sun. Orion and the Pleiades are also mentioned in (Amos 5:8) in connection with the permanent fall of Israel (Amos 5:2) and a reference to Beersheba (Amos 5:5). Additionally, Job 9:7; 38:7,12,32; Amos 5:8 all allude to the Sun.

Media was actually very significant as is evidenced in many points above. As with most of God’s miracles involving people and nations, He delights in doing great things with the seriously disadvantaged underdogs. Independent Media certainly was that and more.

3) The 4th Beast Was the Greek Empire

The above evidence pigeon-holes the identity of the 4th Beast to Greece. However, in addition to that, we also have the similarities between the little horn of Daniel 7, the small horn that grew up in Daniel 8:9-12,23-25, and the description of Antiochus Epiphanes in Daniel 11. They are very similar, especially considering the usage of time statements like the “time of the end” and the “appointed time”.

Riddles Are A Central Element to Daniel

If all of the above evidence seems out of character for God, this section should alleviate those doubts and demonstrate that the book of Daniel in general is anything but straightforward.

Daniel is presented as a revealer of riddles (H280 [Aramaic] cf. H2420 [Hebrew]) (Daniel 5:12). We should expect that the visions that he saw might involve some significant elements of riddle to them. God himself delights in riddles. And the words meaning ‘riddle’ occur only a little more than 20 times in the Old Testament so their significance should be relatively easy to spot.

Moses is arguably the only Prophet, prior to Christ, to whom God did not speak primarily in riddles [H2420] (Numbers 12:6-8; Deuteronomy18:9-21; 34:10). Several prefigurements of Christ have strong associations with riddles. Two of them have connections with the Sun. The Sun is extremely important in reference to the Messiah and the Messianic Kingdom (Genesis 37:9; Joshua 10:12-13; Isaiah 19:18; 30:26; 41:25; 45:6; 55:19; 60:19-20; Malachi 4:2; Luke 1:78; 23:45; Revelation 12:1; 21:23; 22:16)

Samson, whose name means “the Sun” [H8123] and was arguably a Messianic type in many ways, was notable for his riddles (Judges 14:12-19).

God gave Ezekiel a riddle regarding the Babylonian exile (Ezekiel 17:2). Coincidentally, Ezekiel, also contains nearly 100 recurrences of the phrase “son of man” found in Daniel 7. This far outweighs the occurrences of the same phrase in any other book of the Bible.

Solomon, another arguable type of Christ, has connections to riddles too. The riddles [H2420] of the Queen of Sheba [H7614 cf. H7651,H7652 – ‘seven’] tested Solomon’s fitness for ruling and judging his kingdom (1 Kings 10:1-9). Solomon, like Samson, also has definite connections to the Sun. His wives enticed him into worshiping Chemosh [H3645 cf. H8121,H8122, H2535 – “the Sun”] with high-places on the Mount of Olives (1 Kings 11:7) east of the city (i.e. where the Sun rises). Solomon is also credited with writing the Book of Ecclesiastes, containing the refrain “under the Sun” 27 times in 9 out of its 12 chapters.

Even Antiochus Epiphanes in his first mention in Daniel 8:23 harnesses the God-like power of intrigue (lit. H2420 – riddles) in his role as an arch-nemesis of God and his people. Interestingly, the sons of Javan [H3120], were the Greeks, and Javan derives from the word for ‘wine’ as does ‘caba’ [H5433] which is itself identical in written form (i.e. a homograph) to Seba [H5434]. Compare these to Sheba [H7614] and ‘seven’ [H7651,H7652] and you can see a connection may exist between the Greeks and the riddles of Sheba.

Finally, Jesus too confounded his public statements in the form of parables (Matthew 13:13; Luke 8:10).

All that is just to say, that the prophecies of Daniel are more than likely riddles. As such, they are confusing by their very nature. Even Daniel, the revealer of mysteries himself, is still confused in 8:27, one of the most plain of all of Daniel’s visions. It may be no small matter either that Daniel, like the other prophets in general, deals with the rise and fall of Babylon, the place where confusing languages was initiated by God (Genesis 11:9).

So, I believe we have adequate reason to at least allow that Daniel’s prophecies might not always be what they appear to be on the surface. The myriad of opinions that have developed around Daniel over the centuries have certainly demonstrated that to be true. Of course, that shouldn’t be abused as a license to read things into the text that aren’t there. But where we find clues that seem like they could have interpretive value in light of biblical precedents, perhaps we should follow them.

Jesus Does Not Parallel the Language of Daniel

In my opinion, this is a small point on which my case does not largely rest. However, the rigidity of the language of Jesus and Daniel is something on which Mr. Preston places a great deal of importance. My only response is that Daniel very clearly says that the Son of Man was coming to be before God. Even if we favor the Old Greek over the Aramaic, He still does not appear to be coming in judgment in this instance (though, He as the Ancient of Days would definitely be the judge the Little Horn). In Matthew 24 and 26, Christ reapplied this language to His coming in judgment, identifying Himself with the Ancient of Days in response to the prodding of the High Priest. The implication is that by the time that judgment was fulfilled, He would have already ascended to the right hand of the Ancient of Days.

Conclusion

In conclusion, these points raise serious challenges to any argument that the coming of the Son of Man of Daniel 7 was a reference exclusively to a point in time after the life of Christ. They are also at odds with the totality of modern scholarship on Daniel – critical and sympathetic. Yet, their explanatory power is striking and meshes seamlessly together into a coherent prophetic picture that spans all of Scripture.

The nature of these types and shadows are so subtle yet convincingly demonstrable that it’s hard to conceive how mere man could have detected it and perpetuated it for millennia. It’s equally hard to comprehend why they would even endeavor to do such when there was virtually no confidence that the future events they were alluding to would ever actually occur. Further, there was no reasonable assurance that the virtues of what they were perpetuating would be appealing enough to be passed on by generations of readers who were virtually oblivious to the hidden significance of the symbols. Only a God in complete control of history could or would write in such a subtle manner.